Karen Dyball says there is a growing awareness of the need for care provided outside of statutory services, such as school counselling.

She points to increased efforts for working with the third sector.

Asked about suicide prevention, the panel is welcoming of social isolation being recognised as a factor.

Kirsten Hogg explains youth workers try to build relationships with young people to break down isolation barriers, though she points to issues with resourcing.

Image source, GETTY/SPS

HMIPS also published a separate inspection report on Polmont, external.

It said considerable progress had been made in the last three years at the national facility for young offenders, aged between 16 and 21.

William Lindsay, 16, died while on remand at Polmont Young Offenders' Institution (YOI) in October.

The Scotsman reported, external that he killed himself days after being remanded, despite having been flagged up as a suicide risk.

The newspaper report came about a fortnight after the parents of Katie Allan, who killed herself in Polmont YOI called for a review of Scotland's prison system.

Read more here.

• 'Stark reality' of prison suicide ignored, claim parents
• Review ordered after deaths at Polmont
• 'Questions asked' over Polmont teen death
• Suicide student 'humiliated' in prison

Image source, bbc

Deborah Nolan of the CYCJ suggests needs are now more complex and children will have extreme levels of vulnerability.

She highlights adverse childhood experiences as a key issue.

It is a question of how we ensure meeting the range of complex needs rather than being service drive, she adds.

Image source, bbc

Committee convener Margaret Mitchell asks about the issues and needs of children in secure custody.

Karen Dyball from Glasgow City Health and Social Care Partnership explains there are a number of effective interventions in place to keep young people in their communities in Glasgow.

We want children and young people to stay in their own homes, she adds.

Kirsten Hogg from Barnardo's suggests needs have not necessarily changed, but there is a greater understanding of mental health needs.

Image source, Family handout

A review ordered after the deaths of two young people in custody has called for the creation of a stronger suicide and self-harm strategy.

Katie Allan, 21, and 16-year-old William Lindsay died at Polmont Young Offenders' Institution last year.

The review did not examine the specific circumstances of their deaths.

However, it said social isolation should be minimised, external - particularly for those on remand or in the early weeks of a custodial sentence.

The report, by the Chief Inspector of Prisons for Scotland, also found "systemic interagency shortcomings" in communications and the exchange of information about young people entering and leaving Polmont.

Image source, bbc

The committee is continuing to consider secure care for children and young people in Scotland, taking evidence from:

• Kirsten Hogg from Barnardo's Scotland, external
• Deborah Nolan from the Centre for Youth and Criminal Justice, external
• Karen Dyball from Glasgow City Health and Social Care Partnership, external

The committee papers are here., external

Justice Secretary Humza Yousaf calls on the committee to approve the Presumption Against Short Periods of Imprisonment (Scotland) Order 2019 [draft], external.

They duly do with seven MSPs in favour and two against.

Currently the presumption is against jail terms of less than three months.

The Scottish government is proposing to increase this to sentences of less than one year.

Is the risk assessment fit for purpose, asks the committee convener.

She points to previous evidence taken by the committee suggesting it is overly reliant on evidence from the offender themselves.

Mr Yousaf insists it is.

I have to believe that even those that commit the most heinous crimes have the ability to rehabilitate, he adds.

Ms Mitchell replies that we must protect the public and any rehabilitation must be properly resourced, but there is no evidence the three-month presumption has been.

Image source, Getty Images

Proposals to restrict the use of short prison sentences were published by the Scottish government on 17 May 2019.

If passed by MSPs at Holyrood, it will oblige courts to explain why custodial terms of less than a year were given.

Ministers say the current presumption against sentences of three months or less has helped achieve a 19-year low in re-conviction rates.

That is despite research published earlier this month suggesting the change has had little effect.

Read more.

Green MSP John Finnie raises concerns about a reduced range of options for island sheriff courts.

Mr Yousaf says it is important to be aware of these nuances and he expresses confidence that we can meet these challenges.

We want island communities to have the full range of opportunities or community sentences, he adds.

Restrictions on handing out short prison sentences in Scotland have had little impact on imprisonment and re-offending rates, according to research.

Official figures for 2018 showed those sentenced to short jail terms in Scotland were reconvicted almost twice as often in 12 months than those given community payback orders.

Crest Advisory - the consultants which carried out the research - said in its report that the presumption against short custodial sentences had coincided with a number of positive trends in Scotland since its introduction in February 2011.

But, it added, these trends were "largely consistent" with the previous years - before the presumption against short sentences was introduced.

Read more.

Mr Johnson says a lack of multi-year budgeting is holding back community justice.

He urges the cabinet secretary to change this system to provide certainty to sentencers.

We are often restricted by single-year budgets coming from Westminster, replies the cabinet secretary.

However, he says it is possible in some areas and agrees to explore multi-year budgets for this agenda.

Labour MSP suggests the only way we'll see a reduction in prison spend is if we start closing institutions, because they are largely a fixed cost.

How much more money will be spent on community sentences in the interim, before prison numbers come down drastically he asks.

Mr Yousaf says these discussions are ongoing each year but he accepts reprofiling would require a significant shift and for prisons to close.

Image source, bbc

Committee convener Margaret Mitchell asks whether domestic abusers should be excluded from the presumption, citing concerns from Scottish Women's Aid about putting women and children at risk.

Mr Yousaf says he holds Scottish Women's Aid in the highest regard but he does not agree with them, arguing it should be up to the sheriff.

Ms Mitchell says Victim Support Scotland suggested communities have "no faith" in community sentencing as it takes too long to find someone in breach.

Image source, bbc

There is genuinely a job for us to do to see the completion rates of CPOs increase, replies Mr Yousaf, but he reiterates the benefits in terms of rehabilitation in terms of community sentences.

Ms Mitchell also raises concerns about sex offenders, saying victims and the community don't have confidence that this presumption should go ahead.

Mr Yousaf disagrees, arguing the public would prefer to see less crimes being committed and fewer future victims, to which Ms Mitchell argues their priority would be that the protection of witnesses is adequate.

Image source, Getty Images

Legal reforms will see judges urged to consider community sentences over prison sentences of 12 months or less for vulnerable women.

About 90% of jailed women are given custodial sentence of less than a year.

Justice Secretary Humza Yousaf said extending the presumption against short sentences would mean more women would receive a community-based sentence.

He added that many had experienced abuse, mental health and addiction problems.

Read more here.

Mr Kerr says victims' groups are concerned that CPOs are not delivering justice or punishment because a third are not completed.

The justice secretary highlights only two organisations were opposed to extending the presumption against short sentences in response to the consultation.

He adds there are many alternatives and it is important not to "scaremonger" about them.

He reiterates this is a presumption so judges will still have the option of short sentences.

Image source, bbc

Lib Dem MSP Liam McArthur says the resourcing issue is key and says James Maybee from Social Work Scotland told the committee last week that, in terms of funding, Scotland is playing catch up despite additional services.

Mr Yousaf replies he takes what James Maybee says very seriously, but adds he focused a lot on the core grant going to Social Work Scotland and did not refer to cash in the offender services budget line.

He reiterate that the number of CPOs has fallen by 8.3% while the funding for them has been protected.

"I'm not complacent about this issue," he adds.

SNP MSP Jenny Gilruth asks why Scotland has such a high imprisonment rate to begin with.

Mr Yousaf says three factors in play are judicial behaviour, the nature of the offences and the changes in people on home detention curfews.

Ms Gilruth highlights comments by Prof Tata last week that prisons were used as a system of "penal welfare" for people with nowhere else to go.

The amount of people in prison, particularly women, with mental health issues or issues related to poverty and inequality is high, replies the justice secretary.

SNP MSP Fulton Macgregor points out the UK government is considering a ban rather than a presumption, but the justice secretary says that would restrict the judiciary.

In response to questioning from SNP MSP Rona Mackay he points out there could be a positively disproportionate impact on reducing the number of women in prison for short sentences.

The number of CPOs has reduced by 8.3% and there is genuine confidence that the system can cope, adds Mr Yousaf.

He adds in the long term he would like to see our prison numbers drastically fall.

"The high prison rate is a real stain on our conscience."

In the future this will see spending be reprofiled from prison spending to social work but that is not the stage we are at now, he explains.