Image source, bbc

Deputy convener Liam Kerr asks about investment in estates and risks associated with that.

Stephen Boyle says this is part of the wider funding requirements the SPA says it has in order to transform its functions.

Mr Kerr asks about the remuneration received by Prof Deacon.

In the circumstances £125,000 "was reasonable" replies Caroline Gardner.

We have not yet looked at the 2019/20 finances but my understanding is the number of days she was claiming had come down from the 2018 peak.

The committee draws to a close.

Image source, Getty Images

Susan Deacon has resigned as chairwoman of Scotland's police watchdog, saying the system is "fundamentally flawed".

The former Labour MSP was appointed to the Scottish Police Authority in 2017.

But in her resignation letter, she said there was "little more" she could do to make the governance and accountability of policing work effectively.

First Minister Nicola Sturgeon rejected opposition claims the police service was "in crisis" and said the SPA would continue to make improvements.

Read more.

Labour MSP David Stewart says it is effectively like having no financial compass and asks who is guarding the guards.

Mr Roberts agrees having that compass is absolutely vital for the SPA and reiterates the need for more clarity around its function.

He does not know about any timeline for the appointment of a permanent chair of the SPA.

Mr Beattie wonders if we have reached the point where government has to step in to define the various roles of policing organisations.

I don't think SPA can do it themselves, replies the auditor general.

I think it has to be a shared process involving SPA, Police Scotland, HMICS and the government she adds.

Image source, bbc

The SPA was set up to hold Police Scotland to account when the single force replaced the old eight-force model in 2013.

The Police and Fire Reform (Scotland) Act 2012, external set out its five core functions:

1. Maintain the Police Service
2. Promote the policing principles set out in the 2012 Act
3. Promote and support continuous improvement in the policing of Scotland
4. Keep under review the policing of Scotland
5. And hold the chief constable to account for the policing of Scotland.

Chaired by a board, the SPA's members are local councillors and last year it held 19 public board meetings across the country.

It also holds private committee meetings which cover areas such as forensic services and complaints and conduct.

Auditor General Caroline Gardner says there is uncertainty around the role of the Scottish Police Authority.

The wider question is what is the SPA there to do, she adds.

Mr Beattie asks if the SPA is fit for purpose.

Ms Gardner warns against just focusing on the SPA but rather the entire policing system.

Paul O'Hare
BBC Scotland News

Image source, Getty Images

The SPA was only established in 2013, but it has travelled a rocky road.

The announcement by Prof Deacon, a former Labour MSP, came just days after the credibility of the Scottish Police Authority was publicly questioned at Holyrood.

Gill Imery, HM Chief Inspector of Constabulary in Scotland (HMICS), told MSPs senior officers had become "frustrated" by the lack of scrutiny from the SPA.

In the middle of a general election campaign the comments were barely picked up by the media, but they may have proved the final straw for Prof Deacon.

Her resignation means the authority is now looking for its fourth head in just six years.

Read more.

SNP MSP Colin Beattie turns discussion to leadership and governance, and asks about the concerns remaining around corporate function and capacity building.

There has been some real improvements, replies Ms Gardner, pointing to recruitment of some key roles.

At the same time there has been a delay in building the corporate capacity and function of the SPA she adds.

This delay really is a function of a lack of agreement and shared understanding of what the SPA's role is and its relationship with Police Scotland she tells the committee.

Mr Sarwar asks if there is a piece of work Audit Scotland could do around workforce planning across the whole of the public sector.

Ms Gardner replies as ever the challenges for Audit Scotland is what we don't do, not what we do do, with the resources we have.

We are not seeing the joining of the dots across the public sector, agrees the auditor general, citing the example of police officers having to respond to mental health issues.

Labour MSP Anas Sarwar says there are challenges across the government on workforce planning, and asks how this will have an impact.

Mark Roberts explains the fact there has been little financial flexibility means there has not been the room to alter how the workforce operates.

The need for a workforce shift is made clear in Policing 2026 but there has not been the wiggle room to work towards that, he adds.

Mr Roberts adds the police are operating in a tough market in terms of getting people with the right skills, such as to meet challenges presented by cyber-crime.

Auditor General Caroline Gardner says the only people who can do the detailed planning required are senior members of Police Scotland.

Ms Gardner points out it is not possible to make police officers redundant.

Mr Kerr says the medium term financial position remains challenging and there is no funding currently beyond 2020 to support the additional officers.

The auditor general says there is no detail of how the Scottish government will support this in cash terms.

There will be discussion between the SPA, Police Scotland and government, she adds, calling for a more planned and sustainable position to be achieved.

Deputy convener Liam Kerr wonders how much control the SPA has over the budget if the chief constable is able to simply say he needs the officer numbers.

That's a very good question, replies Caroline Gardner.

She says she is not sure anybody could have predicted the events surrounding Brexit last year, but she says the SPA is fundamentally reliant on the chief constable for workforce planning.

We don't yet have detailed plans for how Policing 2026, external will be delivered, she adds.

What we have is projections for the cost of carrying out policing as it is currently, though in the absence of workforce plans there is a view that that is all one can do Ms Gardner says.

The former chairwoman of the Scottish Police Authority was paid £125,000, it has emerged.

The authority's annual accounts, external show Prof Susan Deacon received the money in the year to the end of last March.

When she was appointed in December 2017 her salary was £76,000.

But earlier this year the Scottish government asked the former health minister to spend 20 days a month in the role as opposed to 12.

Read more.

Mr Boyle says in terms of the SPA's financial position, it has had to be supported over and above its cash allocation.

£40-50m would be required to not need cash allocations over two financial years, replies the Audit Scotland representative.

Mr Neil asks if one of the options was to reduce the number of police officers from around 17,200 effectively to 16,500.

Stephen Boyle confirms this, as financial balance was being sought.

The SNP MSP says the immediate financial situation is "still quite worrying" and asks whether closing the deficit is reliant on shedding police officers.

He expresses concern the SPA is "seriously considering" losing officers and asks how much additional money will be required in order not to shed 750 officers.

Stephen Boyle says it has received a £17m one-off allocation to meet Brexit-related costs.

Tens of millions of pounds is needed to not reduce police officer numbers, he adds.

Auditor General Caroline Gardner says there is a continuing lack of clarity about how the system of policing in Scotland should operate.

The history of this major public service reform has been and remains turbulent, she adds.

Ms Gardner calls for a review of the system of governance and accountability as a whole.

SNP Alex Neil asks what form this review should take.

The auditor general replies there have been four chief constables, three chairs of the SPA and concerns about it since the establishment of Police Scotland.

She says policing must be properly held to account and the system must be looked at as a whole rather than just focusing on the SPA.

Image source, Audit Scotland

Concerns remain over the Scottish Police Authority's capacity to carry out its corporate functions, the financial watchdog has said.

In an annual audit, the auditor general found that despite some progress in the last year more clarity was needed around core functions and finances.

The SPA overspent by £36m in 2018/19 and will not achieve financial balance by 2021.

The report also warned there has been limited investment in modernising the police service.

Auditor General Caroline Gardner says the SPA has maintained improvements in accounting and there have been improvements.

However the organisations continues to face "considerable challenges", she adds.

Plans to achieve financial balance in 2020/21 will not be achieved, the auditor general says.

Ms Gardner explains this is in part due to Brexit because the planned reduction in police officer numbers has been postponed.

Image source, bbc

Deputy convener Liam Kerr welcomes:

• Auditor General, external Caroline Gardner
• Mark Roberts from Audit Scotland, external
• Stephen Boyle of Audit Scotland

Image source, Getty Images

The Public Audit and Post-legislative Scrutiny Committee will begin shortly.

Today it is considering the 2018/19 audit of the Scottish Police Authority with the auditor general and Audit Scotland.

Read the committee papers here., external

And the audit is available here., external