Dr Whitcombe says when one parent repeatedly does not abide by a court order there is a failure to identify the harm that has on the child.

"That is harmful to that child and can be considered to be abusive."

There definitely needs to be an investigation if contact does not happen as it could just be vindictiveness to get at the other parent, agrees Ms Loudoun.

The first evidence session draws to a close.

Image source, Andrew Cowan

Should courts be ordering contact in child contact centres when the need for one suggests there could be a safety risk asks SNP MSP Rona Mackay.

June Loudoun of Grandparents Apart UK says contact centres can be good if contact has been broken for some time.

Ian Maxwell says child contact centres are sometimes a good way of ensuring contact continues safely instead of cutting it off.

We should develop and build up child contact centres, he says.

Dr Whitcome agrees with the witnesses about these benefits.

Image source, Andrew Cowan

"A child has a right to claim on a grandparent's estate when they die should their parent predecease them, but they don't have a right of contact in life," says June Loudoun.

"So is money more important than time?"

"Is your estate of more value to your grandchild than your time in life?"

Image source, Andrew Cowan

Mr Maxwell says the bill is missing recognition of other key posts, such as child rights officers and parenting coordinators, which could play a useful role and also take pressure off courts.

A vast amount of court time is used to micromanage disputes between parents, he suggests.

The powers must be made available through this bill to have such people working under the remit of the court, with key decisions still to be made in courts he adds.

Dr Sue Whitcombe says social workers' skill sets are preferable to that of solicitors in terms of child welfare reporters, as they do not understand the issues like coercive control and the influence of a parent for example.

She says she finds it very difficult to understand how someone whose core practice is not around child welfare should be making recommendations.

Image source, Andrew Cowan

There must be a proper assessment of the welfare of a child, says Dr Sue Whitcombe.

We must not be making decisions on what is harmful for a child in private proceedings, she says, adding this should be assessed by the statutory agencies.

Too often we rely on private proceedings when they should be published proceedings, Dr Whitcombe says.

Mr Macgregor asks what changes the witnesses would make to terms like contact.

"I tend to refer to parenting time," replies Dr Whitcombe.

The psychologist goes on to say sometimes allegations are unfounded.

"It is important for children to have a relationship with parents, even parents who've been abusive."

Rona Mackay says: "I couldn't disagree with you more."

Mr Macgregor seeks views on terms such as 'residence order' and 'contact order'.

Ian Maxwell says often parents who get the residence order take the view that they have complete control over contact for the child.

The Shared Parenting Scotland representative argues it would be better to have a term that does not imply a person has the rights or control they do not.

Dr Whitcome says the term 'contact' is an "abhorrent" term to define a relationship with a parent.

Children have a right to a relationship with both parents and this is not about contact, she adds.

Mr Finnie asks Mr Maxwell about his views on withdrawing parental rights and responsibilities in terms of a rapist or perpetrator of incest.

Mr Maxwell says he is taking a child rights based approach, saying around 2,000 unmarried fathers a year are not on a child's birth certificate and among those there will be some who are not "worthy".

He agrees a child who is conceived through rape or incest should not have a parent imposed on them, but he questions how many of the 2,000 fathers are guilty of either.

"I am not trying to grant parental rights to rapists."

However you also need protection for children who are losing out on fathers guilty of neither incest or rape.

Dr Whitcombe says it must be made explicit and clear to both adults and children about when confidentiality may have to be broken, such as if mandated by court.

She says as an expert witness she has asked for therapeutic notes in order to take a view on a case.

In England and Wales it is often the case that such information is disclosed to the expert witness but not to the litigant and therefore she has only included relevant information in her report to the court, she explains.

"I don't think we can ever guarantee confidentiality."

Tory MSP Liam Kerr pivots to confidentiality and the balance between the rights of the child and the parents.

Mr Kerr asks about the provisions on the face of the bill.

Mr Maxwell says if there is an allegation of abuse, it must be clear it is an allegation and getting this wrong could do as much damage to the child as not reacting to reports of abuse.

The status of the bill is "probably ok" as it allows for the extra stage of checking, he adds.

Image source, Getty Images

According to a SPICe briefing on the Children (Scotland) Bill..., external

"The Bill would make some important reforms. It aims to encourage the court to hear the views of younger children (under 12s) before reaching its decision. It would require courts to explain (most) court decisions to (most) children.

"The Bill would also introduce practical measures to improve the experience of vulnerable people in the courtroom, such as parents affected by domestic abuse.

"The welfare of the child, as the paramount consideration, is a key principle of the 1995 Act which the courts apply. The Bill would introduce two new statutory factors to guide the court's assessment of welfare in an individual case."

Mr Finnie asks whether there should be a list of ways a child can give evidence to a court.

Ian Maxwell says there are lots of ways children could give views and he welcomes the part of the bill that allows for this.

The people who work with children on a daily basis know how to elicit their views, adds Dr Whitcombe.

"An artificial list would be unhelpful," she adds.

You don't need a list to find out how children feel, says Ms Loudoun.

Dr Sue Whitcombe says it is never right to say another parent does not love a child or reward a child for not having contact with the other parent.

SNP MSP Fulton Macgregor says in his experience in children's social work there is no training in this area.

The psychologist says we are at the point with parental alienation where we were with domestic abuse 20-30 years ago, as there is a lack of knowledge.

She says she was invited to train Children In Scotland on parental alienation and suggested there was a significant lobby by Scottish Women's Aid to prevent that, which she found "quite worrying".

Image source, Getty Images

Under the new legislation, child welfare reporters, who may be appointed when the court has been asked to resolve a dispute between parents, would be regulated.

This would ensure reporters are trained to understand and respond to issues such as domestic abuse and coercive control.

The Scottish government said other improvements include prohibiting a party from conducting their own case if there was a vulnerable witness.

Campaigners have welcomed the publication of the bill.

Green MSP John Finnie says the committee takes all aspects of domestic abuse very seriously and has taken evidence from victims of all genders.

Dr Whitcombe says sometime more weight is given to the views of the parent caring for the child than the other parent.

Mr Maxwell agrees, saying social work was less interested in supporting the "other parent, often the male parent".

"The child who is prevented from seeing a worthy parent is just as vulnerable, just as important, as the child who is protected," says Mr Maxwell.

If this bill was just about protecting children from domestic abuse it would be a different bill, he argues.

June Loudoun suggests male victims of domestic abuse seem to have been forgotten in these discussions.

Ms Mackay says children's organisations offer support regardless of who the abuser is and reiterates her concern that parental alienation could "cast doubt" on cases involving domestic abuse.

Dr Sue Whitcombe says there is a lack of understanding of what might be alienating behaviour of a parent.

The definition of 'alienating behaviour' is an unwarranted rejection of a good parent where there is an absence of abuse or harm, the psychologist explains.

She points out we do not know how many cases of domestic abuse that come to family courts are actually founded.

Around 50% of cases currently coming to family courts cite domestic abuse.

"Some people do lie, some people do manipulate the system."

That includes people who claim domestic violence, when that is not the case, either intentionally or due to false perception she adds.