Chris Collinson
BBC Sport statistician
Ipswich, Southampton and Wolves are all still looking for a win after nine games.
Of the previous 24 sides winless after nine games, a third of them still survived at the end of the season.
However, only four of the last 17 sides in this situation stayed up.
Southampton have been in this position before in 1998-99 and survived on the final day.
Image source, Getty ImagesFormer Premier League striker Alan Shearer says he "understands" why Kieran McKenna was "upbeat" in his post-match interviews despite Ipswich squandering a two-goal lead and the chance to get their first league win of the season against Brentford.
Speaking on Match of the Day, Shearer said: "I understand why he is trying to be as upbeat as possible. It is all about the psychology and trying to somehow keep his players believing.
"He wants them to believe that they can be competitive and, more importantly, that they can stay in this league.
"But when you look at the stats, unless every single thing improves, they have no chance of staying in this league.
"If they aren't bottom then they are second bottom in almost everything: shots, shots on target, expected goals, touches in the opposition box, goals conceded and errors leading to goals.
"Those stats tell you everything you need to know."
Catch up on Match of the Day here
Gary Lineker introduces highlights and analysis from Saturday's five Premier League fixtures, plus the best of the action from Friday's game between Leicester City and Nottingham Forest.
If you missed Match of the Day, you can catch up now on BBC iPlayer.
Listen back to full match commentaries on BBC Sounds:
Marissa Thomas
BBC Sport journalist
Image source, Getty ImagesThe Tractor Boys have lost 10 points from winning positions in the league this season as they fell to a late defeat against Brentford.
They had to play the last 21 minutes with 10 men after Harry Clarke was shown a second yellow card for a foul on Keane Lewis-Potter.
The pair were in a battle throughout the game and Lewis-Potter came out on top on multiple occasions. Clarke's first yellow card was for hauling down Lewis-Potter in the box and conceding a penalty.
He also scored an own goal to level the scoring at 2-2 before being sent off on his second appearance in the competition.
Clarke became just the second player in Premier League history to score an own goal, concede a penalty and be sent off in the same match after Jan Bednarek with Southampton against Manchester United in February 2021.
Ipswich are winless across their first nine matches of the 2024-25 Premier League season (D4 L5), their longest ever such run at the start of a top flight campaign.
Image source, Getty ImagesIpswich Town forward and goalscorer George Hirst has been speaking to Premier League Productions following the defeat: "It is a tough one to look back at right now. You don't want to ever finish a game like that. With the situation we found ourselves in, to get it back to 3-3, we showed what we are about. We pride ourselves on being a team that can go and do that.
"To go and concede in the way we did, is one of those things that happens when you are down there. We won't be playing the blame game or trying to find fault. All we can do is keep working to turn things our way."
On what positives the team can take from the performance: "That was the message in the dressing room, between the lads and the gaffer. It can almost get hidden when you lose like that. A lot of people on the outside would focus on the result but, for the 90 minutes before that, we played well. We were, for the majority of it, the more dangerous team."
On conceding late on: "That is something we have to work on. We pride ourselves on our press, getting after people, and I enjoy that. We can't just accept that there will be chances at the other end - that is no way to stay in the division."
On the substitutes scoring goals: "We have a squad that are ready to come on and contribute at any given time. Liam [Delap] comes on and scores the goal to get us back in the game, and he nearly does it again late on. We have to keep our heads held high and come back in on Monday morning ready to knuckle down."
On scoring his first Premier League goal: "A proud moment, but it will get clouded a bit with the way we lost the game. But to get that first start was an aim of mine and to follow it up with a goal would have been sweeter, if we had gone on to win the game or even take a point."
Image source, Getty ImagesIpswich's Harry Clarke became just the second player in Premier League history to score an own goal, concede a penalty and be sent off in the same match - after Jan Bednarek with Southampton against Manchester United in February 2021.
Ipswich Town boss Kieran McKenna has been speaking to Premier League Productions after his side failed to hold on to any points this afternoon: "So proud of the performance, to be honest. Some of the challenges we have had this week, with injuries and players dropping out late, have been among the hardest I have faced at the club.
"The performance with 11 men to the performance with 10 men was great. It was on the right track and it will lead us to where we want it to lead us to.
"It is a sickener for everyone, but you see the reaction from the fans at the end. The support they have for the players - it was an incredible effort from everyone."
On the first-half performance: "It was an incredible start. We knew that you have those days where everything you plan, 90% comes off, but it isn't always going to be enough to get a result.
"We limited them to very little before the first two goals, and hit well on the counter-attack, but they showed some quality moments too."
On battling back at 3-2 down: "I always felt like it was there. We had a threat the whole game. George Hirst, on his first league start, was incredible and then we had Liam Delap come on, who is a big goal threat. Down to 10 men, we still felt like there would be chances for us."
On the late winner: "I think we have the box pretty well covered. We could have done better in terms of getting out to the cross, but they will get crosses in when you are down to 10 men.
"There was a decision to let the ball go through, maybe it is a bit of a misunderstanding, and it goes in the corner of the net. A poor goal, but the players involved had outstanding performances. We are dealing with humans and mistakes can happen."
Were you at the game or following from elsewhere?
Have your say on Brentford's performance, external
What did you make of Ipswich’s display?, external
Come back to this page on Monday to find a selection of your replies
Five matches make up Saturday's Premier League action, and we will bring you every moment.
Brentford v Ipswich
Brighton v Wolves
Manchester City v Southampton
Kick-offs 15:00 BST unless stated
Sutton is making predictions for all 380 Premier League matches this season, against a variety of guests.
For week nine he takes on rapper Nemzzz, who supports Manchester United.
Sutton's prediction: 2-0
A home win, no doubt about it. The Tractor Boys' tyres are well and truly punctured after last week’s home defeat by Everton.
I predicted Ipswich would win that game, but I am not doing that again this season.
I do have some sympathy for manager Kieran McKenna, though. I had an argument with Andros Townsend on BBC Radio 5 Live's Monday Night Club, because the longer it goes for Ipswich and Southampton without a win so far, the more confidence drains out of their players.
Some have not played in the Premier League before and it is only natural that they will wonder whether they can play at this level.
Losing to Everton was really damaging because it was a game they probably thought they could win.
Going to Brentford would be tough anyway, but I watched the Bees at Old Trafford last week and they must be pretty peeved to have lost after such a good first half.
Brentford are the better team, and they are more streetwise. They won't slip up here.
Nemzzz's prediction: 1-0
Ipswich still haven't won yet? That won't change here. Brentford gave us a few problems last week and they will take this.
Image source, Getty ImagesAs a player, it is tough when you have not won in weeks and you know that everyone you are playing fancies their chances against you.
Teams will take it to you because they want to make you feel uncomfortable and, historically, teams near the bottom of a league do not have good away records, so that can then create anxiety for home fixtures because there is more pressure on them.
It does not matter how that first win comes but it is so important. But then immediately you will be looking at the fixtures and thinking when will the second come?
Everyone is objectively aware of how good the top four teams are, but some other teams are tough too. Those mid-table teams are often more robust.
Realistically, to survive you need between eight and 11 wins a season, but if you do not believe you can achieve that then that is another issue.
Players need to be able to handle any scenario you are given in the Premier League, but unfortunately for a lot of these teams near the bottom, they are so new to it so they can't lean on previous experiences. Lessons need to be learned quickly and then applied so that results start picking up.
But fans also need to look at performances as well as results.
Supporters might be looking at other managers as an option, but the grass isn't always greener - and then what if it makes no difference?
It is OK having positive performances but not getting anything out of the game - because at least you know you are along the right rack. It is when the performances aren't good that you can start to be concerned.
But having said that, no team should be in real panic mode right now.
Nedum Onuoha was speaking to BBC Sport's Katie Stafford
Crystal Palace, Ipswich Town, Southampton and Wolverhampton Wanderers all remain winless after eight Premier League games - so how can they kickstart their season?
Former Leeds, Everton and Leicester striker Jermaine Beckford tells The Football News Show that back-to-basics, low-risk football is their best bet.
Image source, Getty ImagesBrentford manager Thomas Frank is well aware of the threat posed by Ipswich Town as he prepares to face the promoted side on Saturday.
It will be the first time the sides have faced each other since 2019, when the Bees emerged victorious with a 2-0 win in the Championship.
"I know it is going to be a very tough game," Frank said. "We need to hit a high level and if we hit a high level, then I am convinced we can get the three points in front of our fans.
"In every game they [Ipswich] are competing - maybe they just lack those final bits in games or the margins to get over the line. They are running hard, they are working hard and they are well-structured in everything they do.
"Some of the games that impressed me the most are the away game at Brighton - the 0-0 draw - and the home games against Fulham and Aston Villa. They were very impressive."
An astute tactician himself, Frnak has identified the areas where Town will threaten, and he picked out key players his team will need to keep an eye on.
"On the counter-attack, we need to be very aware," he said. "They press well, they press aggressively and press high.
"Going forward, [Liam] Delap has done amazingly not only on counters, but in structured play as well. "[Omari] Hutchinson was such a threat last year. He is doing well but the more games he plays, the more he will be a bigger threat. [Leif] Davis has a very good delivery and I think they have a good threat in the box.
"All clubs know how much set-pieces are worth and how important they are, so we definitely need to defend well."
Image source, Getty ImagesIpswich Town boss Kieran McKenna says Brentford can be used as a good example of how to get promoted from the Championship and grow into a solid Premier League team.
The Bees were promoted to the top-flight under Thomas Frank in 2021 at the second time of trying, while Ipswich achieved back-to-back promotions.
"I think they've done fantastically well- there's no doubt about it," said McKenna. "They've got their own model and though I think everyone's model is different, there's no doubt that they've done a fantastic job as a club and Thomas has done a fantastic job as a manager.
"Different clubs have their own context, but of course there's things that Brentford have done well that we can take some inspiration from.
"On the other hand, their journey is different than ours. The season before they got promoted, they lost in the play-off final. They had a couple of years pushing at the very top of the Championship. By the time they arrived in the Premier League, to be honest, they probably pretty much had their Premier League team already set.
"They've had their own journey. Our journey is very different to that with the speed of the ascent that we've made, but there's no doubt they've done some things very well and any newly promoted club can look at some of the things they've done and see it as an example."
Ipswich Town could terminate Kalvin Phillips' loan deal from Manchester City in the January transfer window, if the midfielder does not get up to speed at Portman Road. (Football Insider), external
Ipswich Town boss Kieran McKenna has been speaking to the media before Saturday's Premier League game at Brentford (15:00 BST).
Here are the key lines from his news conference:
Jacob Greaves, Axel Tuanzebe, Ben Johnson and Massimo Luongo are still unavailable because of injury, while Jens Cajuste has trained this week and is in contention to play. The rest of the squad is the same that faced Everton.
McKenna said the defeat against the Toffees last weekend was his side's "most disappointing result" so far: "Up until two games ago with the Aston Villa game, everyone inside and outside the club could see the momentum, the performances and of course having four games unbeaten and lots of progression. These are the setbacks that come over the course of the season."
He accepted it has been a tough start: "This is a period where we have to stay really strong as a group and come out the other side as strong as possible. There will be other phases in the season where we manage to keep the same group of players available and manage to be more consistent with our selection."
On left-back Leif Davis, who signed a new deal this week: "Really positive signing for the club in all aspects. He's adapted to us well. He was a big investment for a team in League One, but we always felt the talent was there and we trusted our development programme. He's stepped up to the Premier League."
McKenna says Brentford have done "fantastically well" under Thomas Frank: "They have their own model. Every club has a different model. Different clubs have different contexts. There's things Brentford have done well we can take inspiration from."
More on the Bees: "They had a number of seasons at the top of the Championship, lost in the play-off final before going up. When they did, they had a squad that was almost ready for the Premier League. They've had their own journey - ours is very different with the speed of our ascension. They have done some things well and any newly promoted team can look at them as a good example."
Image source, PA MediaCrystal Palace's 1-0 loss at Nottingham Forest on Monday meant that for the first time in the English top-flight's 126-year history, four clubs have failed to win any of their first eight matches of a league season.
Palace, Ipswich, Southampton and Wolves are all yet to be victorious in the Premier League this campaign.
According to Opta,, external 10 clubs in the Premier League era (since 1992-93) have failed to win any of their first eight games and yet have gone on to avoid relegation.
The most recent of those came last season when Bournemouth, who did not win until their 10th league fixture of 2023-24, recovered to finish 12th.
Before Saints and Wolves did so this season, there had only been six occasions when a team had taken one point or fewer from their opening eight matches of a Premier League season.
Two of those sides ended up surviving - Southampton in 1998-99 and Sunderland in 2013-14.
Seb Brown
Fan writer
Image source, Getty ImagesAs the chants of "We are Premier League" reverberated around Portman Road on 4 May, everyone was excited about what was to come.
New grounds, world-class players and managers, and a chance to re-establish ourselves at the top table of English football were all on the horizon.
Fast forward five months and is the enjoyment factor subsiding?
Even the most optimistic of Ipswich fans would have known we were in for a shock following two seasons of continuous winning, but this weekend's defeat by Everton has knocked the confidence - and enjoyment - of Town fans.
The majority of the old guard have become squad players, and there is not yet the same bond with the new arrivals. Watching players who have given us so much joy looking out of their depth is both sad and sobering as we face facts that this could be a very long season.
One of the biggest cheers on Saturday was the introduction of Harry Clarke and Conor Chaplin - two mainstays of the past couple of years. Other than that there was not much to cheer about, least of all our first real experience of VAR overturning an awarded penalty.
Of course, it is still very early in the season and this team will get better in time. Get a win against Leicester in two weeks and optimism will return. We must remember this is what we longed for through so many years of mediocrity. The chance to take on the best and go toe to toe with the true elite.
The atmosphere at Portman Road is the best it has been for decades while the scenes in the away end at St Mary's and Etihad Stadium (for three minutes!) will live long in the memory.
Is the Premier League enjoyable? Yes, I think aspects of it have the potential to be, even though it does not really feel like it right now.
Find more from Seb Brown at the Blue Monday Podcast, external
Image source, Getty ImagesIpswich defender Leif Davis says he is thrilled to agree a new deal with the club until 2028.
Having joined the club from Leeds in 2022, he has made 98 appearances for the Tractor Boys and has played every minute of their Premier League games so far this season.
Speaking to the club's official website, external, the 24-year-old said: "I am really pleased to have signed a new contract,
"I have loved my time at the club so far and have improved so much during my two seasons here working with this group of players and under a manager who has done so much for me.
"This feels like home now and I am excited to continue the journey."
Ipswich manager Kieran McKenna added: "We are all delighted that Leif has committed his future to the Club.
“Leif has made huge strides over the last two-and-a-half seasons and has developed well, both as a player and as a young man.
"He has been an important part of the successes of the last two seasons and now has the opportunity to play regularly in the Premier League for the first time in his career."
