The convener asks about children in care and whether there is room in the legislation to ensure disclosure checks take account of such life experience, given this group is disproportionately more likely to have a conviction.

Dr Marks repeats her call for a text box to allow people to explain the circumstances around their convictions, though accepts this is outwith the specific scope of this bill.

Dr Weaver expresses concern that the part of the bill which allows for childhood convictions to be disclosed if there is a pattern will impact care experienced people most.

The committee moves into private session.

Dughall Laing endorses a a much tighter set of principles at the outset, which is also backed by Rose McConnachie and Dr Cynthia Marks.

Mr Johnson expresses concern about a potential grey area about contact with the authorities when someone was under 16.

Rose McConnachie and Dr Beth Weaver share that concern, with Ms McConnachie worrying about an unequal impact on those who have been in care.

Dr Weaver says disclosure should be considered on a case by case basis and she points to suggestions that not doing so could be considered in violation of the right to privacy.

Circumstances around the offence, age at conviction and other aspects should be considered, she says.

Labour MSP Danial Johnson wonders if such a set of principles should be put on the face of the bill.

Dr Marks says it would improve transparency and give employers more confidence.

Dughall Laing says one of the problems with the current PVG scheme is that people already believe that is how it functions.

Mr Laing tells the committee if information is not provided in the right fashion and people don't have the correct understanding of it, it is easier to say no than yes.

He would like to see the individual having pre-existing knowledge of what will or will not be disclosed so they can decide if they wish to proceed.

Tory MSP Liz Smith wonders if there is a need for clarification from a legal perspective on what is relevant and what ought to be relevant.

Dr Marks agrees this would be helpful, but this should also be translated into lay speak to ensure everyone can understand it.

Will the bill allow organisations to have all the information they need, asks Ms Smith.

Dughall Laing says good understanding of the PVG scheme is vital but small businesses probably will not have this expertise, so good advice is vital.

Dr Marks agrees a wider piece of work is needed to develop employers' understanding.

Image source, bbc

Dughall Laing from Recruit With Conviction welcomes aspects of the bill, but expresses some concerns.

Mr Laing says these include:

• access to the information about an individual and the costs involved
• need to strengthen aspects of the bill
• more independence for the third party verifier

Image source, bbc

Dr Cynthia Marks from Business in the Community (BITC) welcomes the direction of the Disclosure (Scotland) Bill, adding her organisation has long been an advocate for removing barriers faced by those with convictions.

She cites the "Ban the Box" campaign which would remove the tick box query about convictions on applications.

Ban the Box calls on UK employers to give ex-offenders a fair chance to compete for jobs by removing the tick box from application forms and asking about criminal convictions later in the recruitment process.

Dr Beth Weaver from Howard League Scotland welcomes the bill treating childhood convictions separately, adding this moves towards a more individualised system.

She goes on to call for a more individualised approach to disclosure in general.

Questions remain about the disclosure of spent convictions for the purposes of public safety where statistics suggest that person is no more likely than a person without any convictions to commit a crime in the future, she adds.

Dr Weaver also suggests the onus to have a conviction removed seems to be on the individual, but these people may not have the resources or knowledge to apply.

Rose McConnachie highlights the links between people with convictions volunteering and their successful reintegration into society.

She welcomes the principles of the bill, especially simplification of the process, but expresses concern about the new offence on undertaking a role without a PVG check.

Ms McConnachie says the punishment seems disproportionate to something which could just be a lapse in paperwork and adds it seems to run counter to the commitment to ending short-term sentences.

The convener introduces:

• Dughall Laing from Recruit With Conviction, external
• Rose McConnachie of Community Justice Scotland, external
• Dr Cynthia Marks from Business in the Community (BITC), external
• Dr Beth Weaver from Howard League Scotland, external

Committee convener Clare Adamson pivots to the issue of care experienced young people who may have a higher proportion of conviction rates.

Ms Latto says they are also more likely to have experienced homelessness.

The Shelter representative says one volunteer who works with Shelter is care experienced and has a convictions and bravely shared her experienced in a blog called Volunteering with Convictions.

It showed the value she added but also the trauma she experienced going through the process, adds Ms Latto.

She says this highlighted the need to treat people who have convictions with dignity.

Mr Dillon says he is reliant on volunteers with experience in social work, policing and psychology when considering the recruitment of people with convictions.

He says he wonders how smaller organisations manage this process, particularly when they might not have the expertise to understand what comes back from a PVG check.

The Church of Scotland is committed to recruiting people with convictions safety, he adds.

Image source, bbc

SNP MSP Rona Mackay asks if there is enough guidance here to train and recruit people, as it seems to her a lot of this subjective.

Florence Witherow replies PVGs must be seen as just one part of the process.

Clubs or teams must interview potential volunteers and obtain two references before even getting to a PVG, she explains.

Ms Mackay points out not every organisation does this and Ms Witherow agrees, calling for part of the bill to focus on education to help put all those steps in place.

Mr Hall echoes those comments, saying judgement is an important part of the process.

Ms Smith wonders if there are any concerns about the costs of a PVG scheme and whether it might put people off it.

Adam Dillon from the Church of Scotland says the cost is high for low-paid workers, a point which Mr Murphy-Lawlaw agrees with.

He also goes on to highlight the scheme will require people to renew checks every five years and the cost could be a barrier.

Mr Hall says recruitment of carers is a challenge and any extra barrier is something we should fight against.

Ms Latto highlights volunteers' membership of the PVG scheme is free at the moment and expresses concern about when a volunteer moves to a similar paid role, which is likely to not have a high salary.

Image source, bb

Sarah Latto says a significant number of Shelter volunteers have a history of convictions from experiences of homelessness.

She explains Shelter take a lot of time considering this and points to a volunteer who initially was barred from volunteering but overturned this on appeal.

That volunteer suggests it would be useful when conviction information comes through that there be a free text box where someone could explain the circumstances around their conviction history.

Ms Latto says volunteers having to continually share details of their convictions when they are trying to move on can be quite traumatic.

Liz Smith says the committee has been told by lawyers that there is a difference between information that is relevant and information that ought to be relevant.

The Tory MSP asks if a legal interpretation of these two terms would be helpful.

Any clarity is to be welcomed, replies Oisin Murphy-Lawless.

Mr Johnson wonders if it is sufficiently clear about how and when criminal records or Other Relevant Information (ORI) are relevant when seeking to do a protective role.

ORIs allow for the disclosure of non-conviction information.

Sarah Latto says under 16s can apply for other disclosure products, just not a PVG - but she says the other checks might not disclose information.

It's not necessarily about sharing the disclosure information but about whether or not they are on any barred lists, she adds.

Florence Witherow also raises concerns about time issues, warning it could take longer for reviews of applications to be conducted.

Nichola Rutherford
BBC Scotland

Image source, Thinkstock

Who needs to undergo background checks?

Anyone who is working with children as part of the normal duties of their job generally needs to apply to Disclosure Scotland for a Protecting Vulnerable Groups (PVG) background check.

It applies to anyone who has unsupervised contact with under 18s in either a voluntary or paid role.

What could the background check reveal?

Criminal convictions and any other relevant information held by the police will be thrown up by the PVG scheme record disclosures.

Read more.